really good idea

[worm82075]

I have an idea for an Elder Scrolls site, where you could go to place a classified ad and you wouldn't have to be a member to post it. Ads like, work wanted, modder wanted, model wanted etc,etc... Or you could just place your resume there and see who bites.

Also it could have a very extensive list of links to everywhere in the community. And up to date statistics on all those sites, like how many mods they host, the current poll, the latest news headline, how many members they have, how many posts they have etc,etc...

Oh, yeah and a top 5 list ranking all the sites by their different statistics.

I think it would be cool if someone made a site like that.

[Reepicheep]

yeah, we get the hint.

The thing is, a forum that doesn't require member posting is doomed to start. Not everyone will use it practically or maturely and it is highly prone to spam. When such a forum is available only to members, the people who post in it can be moderated, as can the posts.

The general chatting community of Oblivion really isn't that huge (In terms of number of sites) not big enough to require a list of the sites. If you want mods, theres the TES Nexus, if you want info theres UESP and the construction set wiki. Then you're just about sorted. Modding forums, on the other hand, are quite plenty but most would not want their forums to be easily accessible, since most belong to modding teams who prefer to keep a small community.

Besides, Cyrodiil.net honestly isn't vast enough to justify having that sort of forum here. Only a handful of the people here can mod (which is probably most of us anyway) and even fewer would give up time for requests from non-members.

Sorry to piss on your idea like this...


EDIT:
Alcron and I had a chat about this. Dunno if we or anyone will take it to heart, but we built on your original idea...

DM8954 says:
I think a website to track other websites about a topic would be interesting. It could generate more traffic to all the sites that still have activity.
 Reep Says:
Maybe not Oblivion, though. The most active websites are few enough to be well known by everyone anyway and when it comes to the smaller communities, the members may as well just stick with one.
DM8954 says:
yeah.
I just read your post. It makes sense.
DM8954 says:
Really, he seems to want a friendlier version of TES Nexus and the other major mod posting sites.
 Reep Says:
Activity and friendliness don't really go hand-in-hand...
DM8954 says:
yeah.
DM8954 says:
Thousands of mods on one site and the only comments are either mindlessly supportive of a mod or unneccessarily harsh. There's not much real constructive criticism. The mod users also outnumber the modders by tons.
 Reep Says:
I never read those comments, unless I want to see if a bug I'm experiencing is common.
DM8954 says:
So, mod requests and cries for help aren't really answered either.
DM8954 says:
yeah.
 Reep Says:
If I want to make a mod request (only ever done this once, though) I would hunt down the individual modder as opposed to just posting publically.
DM8954 says:
yeah. You have to get someone's attention and interest first.
 Reep Says:
But even on Nexus, requests aren't always ignored.
DM8954 says:
I found quite a few mods through the links on TES:MC... if they were still active, it would be great to get updates from all of them, instead of going back to each site to see if anything new has happened.
 Reep Says:
thats a good point.
 Reep Says:
If a site like that could be highly moderated, then its not a bad idea.
DM8954 says:
It would be cool to have some stats listed for each site like, members online in the last 24 hours, members online average in the past 30 days, new posts today, everage posts per day this month, and then the most recent news post from the leader of the mod.
DM8954 says:
Really, you'd just need to use each site's own statistics and then keep a close eye on the update posts, which are only made by one of the site staff members.
DM8954 says:
Beyond those update pages, it would just be a regular forum.
 Reep Says:
Yeah. All the sites have to do is sign up and be approved by a moderator. Then the site would get its own section (like a table or something) which it can modify.
 Reep Says:
The only downside to that is that it might put the moderator at risk when he checks new sites, but that shouldn't be too bad.
DM8954 says:
Most of it needs to be automatic, once the site is on board.
 Reep Says:
sure
 Reep Says:
then just customizable updated and stuff
 Reep Says:
updates*
 Reep Says:
looking at it that way, its not too bad.
DM8954 says:
Heck, even the update post could be copied directly from the original website. It would be a great incentive for them to keep their sites up to date

[worm82075]

It's only the Bulletinboard that doesn't require membership, the rest of the site will, and yes I said will, my idea is no longer such, and it has been an action for quite some time. I posted this thread accross 18 forums just to get the feel for the community and a little publicity as well. Sorry for the  ruse but for this to be successful I need feedback. If I came in here talking about what I have already done then no one would say a word. Disguising my post as a newbie request brought out the sharks and in turn that brought out the spectators. It doesn't matter if anyone thinks this can be done, it only matters that people know that it is a possibility. Then when they hear about the site they will check it out because it is already in the back of their minds.

MY NEW SITE IS ALMOST READY!

Community BulletinBoard, Community Links and Site Statistics Tracking, Mod Publishing and Mod Development Research. Also Offering Temporary and Possibly Permanent Housing for Homeless Mod Teams. You Will Be Given a Forum Category of Your Own With Administrator Rights to That Space.

[Edit: fixed the text-color-code for you.]

[DM8954]

Well, I'm curious to see how you implement your ideas in this new site of yours. I think it's an interesting idea.

The problems of an open forum (spam, primarily) aren't to be underestimated. There will be a point when junk far outnumbers actual posts and if that ratio stays bad you'll lose users. Just something to watch out for.

Beyond that, though, being able to track the progress of multiple WIP mods from the same site could be very useful.

I'm especially interested in what statistics you'll be tracking for each site. For example:
 - members online in the last 24 hours
 - average members online per day in the past 30 days
 - new posts today
 - average posts per day this month

You might even be able to invent a variable/rating which uses these sorts of statistics to come up with an overall activity rating. You might even include an activity average of all the sites combined to compare back to each individual site to see how well they're doing in the community of communities.

One of the main things to watch out for in all these statistics is off-topic posting. That would be impossible to track because "on-topic" isn't black and white but gray... not to mention having to read and judge every post on who knows how many sites. Some sites are worse than others for this sort of thing but in the grand scheme of things, it might just have to be overlooked. The only way to account for it, which could get complicated, is to not count threads that are purposely set aside for casual off-topic discussion. Hopefully, you can account for that in whatever method you use.

[Igiss]

Gathering statistics and headlines from other sites is not always a good idea. For smaller sites, it can be a way to promote themselves and gain additional visitors. For larger sites, it's just using their content elsewhere that brings no benefits. Admins may not like it, and prohibit automatical info extracting (as part of EULA/copyright notes for their sites). There's no legal action to be expected, for a fansite can't actually become a profitable enterprize, but those who violate such regulations will have bad rep within the community.

Capability to post without registration is a bad idea. It may work for a small site, but once it becomes a little bigger and gets in at least one forum spam database, it turns into nightmare. It won't be hard to fill each and every section of such forum/site with spam in a very short while.

[DM8954]

Good points.

I didn't state it (I should have) but I was assuming that the automatic collection of statistics would only begin for a site after the leader of that forum was contacted to ask permission. You meet with each mod site that you're interested in tracking and if they agree, they'll post updates (either on the new site or the original mod site) and figure out a way to automatically track certain key statistics.

I only say automatic because no one would be dilligent enough to keep every site up-to-date manually. I only suggested the stat-tracking at all because mod sites fail all the time. A vast majority of sites that I find on the internet about modding that I'm interested in have died off or trickled down to a post or two per month before I even discover them. It's pretty disappointing to say the least.

[Igiss]

Modding takes up lots of time... and writing/collecting info about modding takes up time as well. In a situation like this, most successful modders are professional modellers who are already in the game dev industry or close to getting in there. Also, only the biggest modding sites survive. Like TES Nexus.

Talking about TES Nexus, they put ads on their site to repay hosting costs, and possibly get some profits for the owner (although I'm still sure that a fansite cannot bring serious profits, even a large site like Nexus). What does this mean? Basically, the site creator is interested in people visiting it regularly and reading the news on the site's own pages, where ads are displayed. If news are agregated somewhere else, and if this "else" place becomes popular, site itself would get less page views (two reasons: there'll be more alternatives, and some news/announcements/posts may not seem enough interesting). I'm sure that same can be said about a number of other TES sites, not only Nexus.

As a side note - our own site (I believe) has one of the largest collections of working TES links. Most of them are in English, but some lead to sites in other languages. It's located here: http://www.cyrodiil.net/html/links.html plus there's a separate page with Oblivion modding links that I created once it was clear that there will be lots of TES IV modding resounces: http://www.cyrodiil.net/html/modlinks.html

Yes, a little bit of self-advertizing

[worm82075]

Hello all, my name is Jeremy, but please, call me Worm. This is my site and I hope you enjoy it. I would like to share some of my thoughts with you now about where I see us as a community heading and how I would like to help shape that journey.

I think of The Elder Scrolls Community as a universe in and of itself. The individual TES sites and their authors are the stars and worlds of that universe. The world wide web is the light years of empty space between those worlds and The Wormhole is a short cut through the void connecting those distant worlds and mixing the otherwise isolated inhabitants of an ever expanding universe.

Many people predicted a sharp dencline in the interest expressed in this series, but statistics show that 1000+ new faces enter our community everyday. It is up to us as senior members of this community to welcome and teach those that are new to TES modding. In this way, much needed new blood can be added to the ever dwindling pool of available modders. It won't be long before the activity on the two main forums explodes with the next release of TES. It is quite possible that this will be a serious problem for everyone that uses those sites.We are seriously over crowded in those places and seriously underpopulated throughout the rest of the community.In my travels throughout this universe I have encountered many worlds, most of them dieing from lack of support. Many good mods and great sites have starved and been all but abandoned by the wayside to die a slow and painful death at the hands of poor resource management. It is my wish to proliferate the organization of growth and eventual evolution of the modding phenomenon in which we are all participating. We must act now to ensure a long and fruitful existence for all that is TES.

I give you TES Modders Community College. A revolutionary site of my own design that I am calling a "Dorm Room Style Forum". Each eligible member will receive their own room(forum), fully self moderated and open to invitation only. Residents will also receive a globally moderated public room(classroom) upon request.
This will be a highly moderated site with an in depth lesson plan for beginners , organizational support for aspiring teams, and long term informational and promotional Support for teams that move on to their own sites.
A carefully thought out ranking system will be implemented here to ensure that resources are not wasted on the not so serious and is redirected efficiently to benefit our students and resident modders alike.
~Ranking System~ 2-21-08
Novice - 0-19 - If you have no prior experience modding you must start here. Novices an Apprentices will enjoy hassle free interaction with higher level members (ie;no question is a stupid one at these ranks).
Apprentice - 20-54 - By the time you reach 54 posts you should have a firm grasp on your chosen area of modding.
Journeyman - 55-104 - Probably the toughest rank. All higher ranking members are no longer required to take it easy on you and you will have very few perks.
Expert - 105-169 - Once you reach this rank you will be eligible ( based on your overall contributions) to move on to one of three ranks depending on what you choose to do.
1 - Resident - A fully unrestricted and free form modder, with or without team ambitions.
2 - Junior Moderator - The first step to becoming a staff member
3 - VIP - a special class of members that are users/moderators
Should you choose to take none of the above positions you may continue to be a freestyle tutor and your ranks will progress as follows:
Master - 170-299
Elite - 300-499
Legend - 500-999
Icon - 1000+

Resident - this rank is the most free to do as you please position here. Residents are encouraged to share their knowledge with  the low ranking members, but are not required to. Any modder with a released mod ranking higher than five is automatically eligible for this position.
VIP -  This rank is for those that do not wish to mod or officially join the staff, but have a moderate amount of knowledge to share and are interested in assisting the school and it's residents with play testing, research, promotion and publishing of mods. Anyone that can provide a link to a list of posts that shows exemplary contribution and desire to help others to learn, will automatically be eligible for this position. All VIPs will have their own room.
Junior Moderator - this position is at the bottom of the ladder for staff members. Your power here is limited to moderation of reported files.
Global Moderator - this position affords you to moderate all public forums with powers falling just short of banning members. All staff members with a rank equal or greater will have their own room.
Senior Moderator - Full moderator rights in all public and private spaces as well as the ability to ban members.
Administrative Moderator - Full administrator with all the power that entails, with the exception of changing network settings and style code.
Administrator - Founder status Only I and my partner Robert aka Stormraven possess this rank, but any Administrative Moderator that remains diligent to this site and it's cause for six months or more will be offered founder status.

I firmly believe that this will provide the entire community with more modders and better mod making time tables.

We hereby do solemnly swear to always aid in the successful transformation of newbie to modder and the creation and wide, even distribution of content created  by and for The Elder Scrolls Community. We and any who join us will provide;
1 - An always free to post Community BulletinBoard(no membership required)
2 - An extensive list of community links w/up to date statistical info,available to all as well as a page for each site with in depth house and user reviews
3 - A friendly, hands on learning environment for those just learning and those seeking to extend their skills by collaborating with others.
3 - A comprehensive research and promotional publishing support service to all who seek it.(details to come)
4 - Housing for all staff and eligible members
5 - An unbiased and open minded organization dedicated to the growth and support of the entire community.

This is our mission statement and while it may change slightly in the future the overall goal will remain the same, to unify our community and prevent good members from being left out in the cold to suffer and eventually give up on their dreams to make worlds in The Elder Scrolls universe.

Thank you for your time and if you like my idea's and are currently without a home, consider joining me. Formation of a mod team is also in my plans so there are many roles to fill here, all of them productive to our cause. Long Live TES Community

Respectfully,

Jeremy Burkett aka Worm

[Reepicheep]

Ya'know, I'm starting to like this idea more and more.

[Igiss]

This sounds like an intro to an actual site... but where's the site? link maybe?

True, the idea sounds good, if it does attract certain user attention... my replies shouldn't be considered like I thought otherwise, just pointed certain problems related with such practice.

[worm82075]

It is advertising of sorts. Response from the community has been overwhelming. Many quality people have stepped forward and I now have the start of a respectable staff. We will not be open for public registration until all content and management systems are in place. The entire purpose behind this venture is to bolster the whole community, not to take away from it. Dedicated modders are starting to see that and are asking to join for the sole purpose of breathing new life into the community as well as their own site. TES Community College will be a private learning institution, as such guests will have access to the public resources of the site, but will have no access to the campus unless they become a student. Public chatting will be at a minimum here. That is the reasoning behind the dorm rooms, so we do not lose focus on the overall goal. The rules are not something I'm proud of but are absolutely necessary to ensure that the majority of students graduate and move on to other areas of the community, possibly yours.

Let me apoligize in advance to all the staff members here, for soon enough you will have a flood of students here asking where they can find this or that. The upside to that is almost certainly some of these people will like what they see here and will tell all their friends about it and will possibly join you. This sort of thing will be widely encouraged at our school. Keep in mind that we will only be pointing people in certain directions to find the resources they need, while we will tell them how to conduct themselves in places such as these we can hardly control the chaos that is bound to occur. It would be widely beneficial to all concerned to collaborate on this, so as to keep the flow organized.

We will not accept your application for employment if you choose to leave the site or the team you are with now. We have already turned down several such applications as that is counter productive to our cause. All current staff members were either without a home or a have joined us on the side in hopes of creating something to benefit their site or team.

We need all the support we can get, but should you choose to shun or otherwise boycott our cause that will have no bearing on our mission. We will still provide the public with a link to this site and any other known site for that matter and we will encourage the exploration of them in search of a place of their own. Like our mission statement said:

We hereby do solemnly swear to always aid in the successful transformation of newbie to modder and the creation and wide, even distribution of content created by and for The Elder Scrolls Community. We and any who join us will provide;

5 - An unbiased and open minded organization dedicated to the growth and support of the entire community.

 
I thank you all for your time and hope that none of my actions here have done any harm in any way.

Repectfully,

Jeremy Burkett aka Worm